Joseph Matheny in conversation with P. Emerson Williams and a new episode of In Your Ear, in which Psuke reviews Transpondency.

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P. Emerson Williams is a visionary artist and illustrator, whose work has been displayed in galleries and events in Norway, Scotland, Boston, New Orleans, Salt Lake City, Florida and London. His illustrations have also appeared in countless publications, as the artist in residence at Ghastly magazine and as the illustrator for many other Goth and occult publications from California to Virginia, and Lithuania, England and Finland to Colombia, as well as covers for sevel titles from Original Falcon and Leilah Wendell’s book «Necromance». His art can be seen on the front cover of SLEEPCHAMBER’S return to action release “Socery, Spellls, and Serpent Charms”, as well as the Zewizz tribute releases “That’s Romance” (both part 1 and 2). He is a core member of FoolishPeople starting from London productions of Cirxus and The Abattoir Pages and continuing with the forthcoming A Red Threatening Sky on other projects in the works.

Williams’ experimental Gothic.Industrial act VEIL OF THORNS is approaching the twenty year mark in their career, and they continue to build on an ever expanding palette with «salon Apocalypse» and «Necrofuturist». Veil Of Thorns began as a Goth band in the early 90’s club scene in Boston but steadily moved toward a more eclectic sound. Not afraid to use any influence - you will hear styling’s of goth, hip hop, industrial, classical, and just about the whole kitchen sink. In 2009, VEIL OF THORNS formed a creative alliance with Inner-X-Musick, the label and music distributor run by the infamous John Zewizz of SLEEPCHAMBER fame.

Coming to fruition in 2010 are two releases from CHORONZON, P. Emerson Williams’ chaotic project whose twin roots lie in industrial and black metal music. CHORONZON, began as two separate and entirely unrelated projects with the same name: the eastern half was a Boston/Florida based black metal-styled band formed in 1986 by P. Emerson Williams, while its western counterpart was the San Francisco old school industrial project of Demimonde Mesila Thraam. In 2002, the two respective CHORONZONs became aware of each other via the internet, and agreed to share use of the name, before going still further and collaborating musically.

Prior to the merging of CHORONZONs, the East Coast CHORONZON released of a series of self produced cassettes before being signed to the record label Nocturnal Art Productions in 1998, and released the album «Magog Agog». Three more albums followed, in which the sound moved further away from conventional black metal into industrial and experimental territories. The first release from the conjoined CHORONZON was the double album New World Chaos, produced in 2005.

If that is not enough, P. Emerson Williams has more bubbling under the surface. Keep an eye out for renewed and exponential activity from kkoagulaa and Mythos Media in the coming year and the move of Necrofuturist {TRANS}_Mission, his radio show on Radio Nightbreed from web streaming to Sirius/XM sattelite radio.

Links:

Choronzon.org
Veilofthorns.com
FoolishPeople.com
Mythosmedia.net
kkoagulaa.wordpress.com
Innerxmusick.com
praysilence.org/page/radio-nightbreed
discogs.com/artist/P.+Emerson+Williams
Listen to or download show below

 The GSpot: P. Emerson Williams [54:36m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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Joseph Matheny in coversation with Klint and Jillian from Esozone, talking about the new “open source and unconference model” being used this year.

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After EsoZone Portland 2009, we will release the “EsoZone Protocol,” a set of guidelines similar to an open source software license that will enable organizers to host an EsoZone in their own city as long as they are free and follow the “unconference” model.

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 The Gspot: Esozone [16:48m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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This year EsoZone - the third annual Portland conference dedicated to the occult, fringe science, and other offbeat topics - is forgoing a pre-planned schedule in favor of letting attendees create their own agenda.On October 9th, participants will arrive at Watershed PDX and collaboratively create the schedule. The event will be free and open to the public, and anyone will be able to propose a session, lead a workshop, or suggest a group activity. The approach is called “unconferencing,” a technique pioneered by tech-industry events.

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Joseph Matheny in conversation with Jon Lebkowsy about the beginnings of the public Internet, hacking, phreaking and the rise and fall of the “C” word (Cyber) , social media and a host of other remembrances of recent history.

Also, remember to come out to Book Soup 9/9/9 for Random Obsessions and Strange Stories with Nick Belardes, and others, including Joseph Matheny for a reading and a GSpot taping.

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 The GSpot: Jon Lebkowsky (jonl) [87:12m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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Jack Sargeant (12 March 1968) is a writer specialising in cult film, underground film, and independent film, as well as subcultures, true crime, and other aspects of the unusual. In addition he is a film programmer and an academic.

Since 1995 Jack Sargeant has written and contributed to numerous books on underground film, including: Deathtripping: The Cinema of Transgression, about Cinema of Transgression filmmakers such as Richard Kern and Nick Zedd, Naked Lens: Beat Cinema, and Cinema Contra Cinema, a collection of essays on alternative film. He is the editor of the journal Suture, and has co-edited two volumes Lost Highways: An Illustrated History of the Road Movie (with Stephanie Watson) and No Focus: Punk on Film (with Chris Barber). In 2007 Deathtripping was republished by Soft Skull Press.

He has contributed to numerous books on subjects ranging from Andy Warhol movies to road rage and car crash songs and his work has been included in collections such as Mikita Brottman’s Car Crash Culture, Mendick & Harper’s Underground USA, Wollen & Kerr’s Autopia, among others.

He has also authored and edited true crime books including Born Bad, Death Cults, Bad Cop Bad Cop, and Guns, Death Terror’. These books have featured contributions from Monte Cazazza, Michael Spann, Andrew Leavold, John Harrison, Simon Whitechapel, Chris Barber, and others.

Jack has written introductions for Joe Coleman’s Book of Joe and photographer Romain Slocombe’s Tokyo Sex Underground.

He has contributed to publications such as Headpress as well as Panik, The Wire, Fortean Times and Bizarre magazine, as well as academic journals such as Senses of Cinema and M/C.

Between 2001-2003 he was film editor at large for Sleazenation. Jack has written cover notes for DVDs by various underground and independent filmmakers, including the British Film Institute’s DVD release of Kirby Dick’s film Sick: The Life And Death of Bob Flanagan, Supermasochist.

Jack has appeared in numerous film and TV documentries on culture and film, as well as having cameos in underground films. He has also appeared on recordings by the experimental group I/O.

He has promoted and organized shows for filmmakers and artists at the Horse Hospital in London and Cinematheque in Brighton, UK, and has also toured film festivals in America, Europe, and Australia, including the New York Underground Film Festival, the Chicago Underground Film Festival, Melbourne Underground Film Festival, Brisbane International Film Festival, and Sydney Underground Film Festival. In 2002 and 2003 he collaborated with Simon Kane on The Salon, an annual event that has featured performances by David Tibet, Cosey Fanni Tutti, and Cotton Ferox.

He is currently curating the Revelation - Perth International Film Festival 2008. (wikipedia)

http://www.jacktext.net
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Hello Jack. Here we go. What inspires you to write on the subject of extreme cinema-Beat Movies, cult films etc.?

In terms of inspiration, I think I become inspired because I want to find out about things personally, for my own interest, and I pursue these absolutely. I think, and have been told, that I can be pretty obsessive about my interests. Then of course I know there’s a handful of people out there who share my tastes, so it makes sense to write books. It should also be obvious that I am fascinated by the creative processes behind writing and always have been, although not in a precious way, I am happy to work with editors and so on.

Additionally, I’ve always been drawn to things that were considered to be outside of the mainstream. I have very little interest in what I guess you’d call dominant culture and was never really interested in it. The topics which I write about all, I think, reflect my own tastes. But I don’t know if I have an overarching theme across all my books or anything, I write about what I want, there’s no wider agenda. Or if there is it only emerges subsequently when looking back from the vantage point of history at my earlier books.

What were the subjects of your first published articles?

I used to write music fanzines when I was a teenager, so I guess interviews with bands and so on. Additionally I wrote about odd things that got my interest for various magazines. I went through a phase writing about cars and violence, something I return to periodically when writing true crime pieces or in some of the more obscure pop culture pieces I’ve written such as on car crash pop songs for Mikita’s book Car Crash Culture.

Were you always a fan of exploitation and cult films?

Yes. I was exposed to these things very early on. I remember just watching video after video of horror movies, exploitation movies, cult films and so on. But the best thing was midnight movies, I used to go and see late night double bills week after week, Friday and Saturday nights. That was such as education you know, just watching movies, all those great late night classics The Thing, Assault On Precinct 13, Salo, Halloween, Pink Flamingos, Female Trouble, Eraserhead, Santa Sangre, Evil Dead, The Beast and so on, I loved sitting in the cinema with the film geeks, fans, crazy night people, oddballs, drunks, stoners, and so on who made up the crowd. True nighthawks one and all.

Could you name some of your favorite films?

Every time I do the list changes, lets just say I love all kinds of movies, I admire filmmakers who follow their vision and films that show you something in a different way, ultimately the films I write about are the ones that matter most to me. If you need a list: Fingered, SXXX80, Eraserhead, Holy Mountain, The Proposition, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, Night of the Living Dead, The Idiots, Wake In Fright.

Let’s talk about “Beat Cinema”. What effect did jazz music have on the films of the beat writers?

I guess the idea of the freedom in the music inspired the idea of freedom in other forms of expression, but I don’t think the progression was simply from one to the other, these things happened at the same time and followed their own pathways. The idea of the Beat Cinema book Naked Lens was simply to examine the way this subculture or subcultural gesture extended culture beyond the boundaries traditionally ascribed to it.

What made these films so important to the culture of the 1960’s?

It depends on which films you are talking about. Some no doubt inspired people - like the freedom of Pull My Daisy or Flower Thief which got people to pick up cameras and make their own movies. Or Flamming Creatures which influenced queer theatre and what became know as glitter rock, and eventually, by extension, bands like the New York Dolls, and of course filmmakers like John Waters. Others like Balch and Burroughs’ film The Cut Ups probably found a more appreciative audience in the late ’70s within industrial music.

Did you ever meet Allen Ginsberg or any of the other beat writers?

I spoke to Allen Ginsberg on the phone for Naked Lens. I saw Herbert Hunke read when he toured, which was incredible, a truly inspiring performer and writer.

How are exploitation films such as those made by Herschel Gordon Lewis and David Friedman (”Blood Feast”) trangressive?

Well, I don’t think I ever said they were, but I guess they broke the boundaries of what was considered culturally acceptable at the time, with the gore, sexual representations and so on. But I don’t think it maters if its transgressive or not, if you enjoy it then that’s fine, you know.

What is the audience seeking in viewing these films?

I don’t think that it is possible to say, I mean, every member of an audience has their own interest in a film and motivations for being there watching.

What are some of your favorite road movies and why do you think audiences love road movies so much. What do films like “Easy Rider” give to the audience?

Again, what my favorites are changes all the time. I love Vanishing Point, Two-Lane Blacktop and so on.

Could you name some Punk rock films that you may want to talk about? Some of your favorites. What about the nature of punk music may have brought about the making of these films?

The punk rock movie book (No Focus) was very much a joint project. I curated an entire season of films at ACMI in Melbourne and those

movies I selected were probably the ones I liked best: Ladies And Gentlemen The Fabulous Stains, Jubilee, Louder Faster Shorter, TG Live at Oundle, Repo Man and so on. I think the most obvious aspect that punk music has on film was less to do with music per se and more to do with the whole punk idea of being able to do it yourself.

Do you listen to punk or hardcore?

Sure I enjoy some punk and hardcore, but my preference is for those bands who were were not so generic thrash… broadly, the more experimental post-punk bands.

Let’s get back to Beat Cinema and the experimental films of William Burroughs, Cut-Ups as they are called and the films and musical experiments of Brion Gysin. What did these films hope to accomplish? Is there any relation between Burroughs writings and his films?

Oh, there’s a whole lifetime’s research in that. I mean, I’d suggest all of Burroughs’ work can be seen as part of a large project to attack control systems. As to what the films tried to accomplish, I think that was covered in Naked Lens.

What do you think of the banning or censorship of certain violent films, underground or mainstream? Is there such a thing as going too far?

Obviously I think censorship is absurd. Going “too far” is interesting, to me going “too far” isn’t so much about say the level of violence but the metanarratives around it.

What was your opinion of the film “Caligula” and “Canniba Holocaust” perhaps two of the most extreme films ever made?

I’m not sure that extremity can be quantified. I mean Cannibal Holocaust is just entertaining trash but it’s no worse than say Cannibal Ferox or a dozen other Italians horror movies. As for Caligula, I can’t remember, I haven’t seen it for years.

Are films like the Guinea Pig series from Japan, “too disturbing”?

I’m not interested in those films particularly. I do like Mishima’s film about ritual suicide which is beautiful.

What lies in the future for extreme culture?

I don’t know, I maintain an interest in underground film, and always find things I like. I’m not sure if these films are extreme - as I said I don’t think it’s possible to quantify extremity - but there’s good things being made still.

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http://www.nightserpent.com/

Hmmmmm, what to tell you about myself? Might as well start at the beginning….I was born May 2nd, 1972 on Martha’s Vineyard. This tends to be novel in conversations, even funnier are the questions/comments I have received: ‘Do you have electricity?’, ‘Do you get television there?’ (no, television signals are like vampires, they can’t cross water!) and ‘I thought they locked the island up in the winter!’. I wish I had said,”Yes I am the Key Master, I guard the padlock for six months a year to make sure nobody breaks in.” I didn’t have the typical ‘Vineyard experience’; my family would winter there, and summer in northern Vermont (I know, generally a WINTER resort!) To be quite honest, I’m not big on crowds… so it was just as well that way.

My parents were a children’s book writer/illustrator team for years. My mother (Carol) has written over fifty books (look for our collaboration: Mothers Are Like That, in the spring of 2000). Not only did my father (Donald) illustrate my mother’s books, he illustrated for other writers as well as his own books. By the time he died (June, 1989) he had illustrated over eighty books. If you look around, you will find some of their books about a little boy named Paul. Growing up at a summer resort was a tad uneventful in the ‘off season’, if it weren’t for a keen interest in art and role playing games… bad scene! A lot of kids did some stupid things out of sheer boredom in the off season. If it wasn’t racking up a car, knocking up a girl or knocking over a store- it was something worse! I thank my lucky stars that I could entertain myself. - http://www.nightserpent.com/bio.html

When did you become interested in HP Lovecraft and the occult? Why does this subject matter interest you?

Lovecraft’s works entered my life in high school, a friend introduced our gaming group to the Lovecraft inspired role-playing game ‘Call of Cthulhu’. I don’t think he could have done a better job of making us intensely curious about the unfolding story… yet also quite fearful of truly uncovering the mysteries. It was such a contrast from the typical “hack and slash” games, it seemed far more intelligent and challenging, and our characters felt more like human beings rather than pages of statistics. This inspired me to start reading the original source, and though I think much of it had already been distilled to me though other media (movies, comics, games, music, etc) which “borrowed” greatly from Lovecraft, none of the clones seemed to be able to recreate the same sense of dread, increasing curiosity and unfathomable vastness. I guess it was those qualities that inspired me, it made the universe exponentially larger and time more infinite.

I am increasingly fascinated by being exposed to different perspectives and philosophies, I guess it reminds me that the ones I’ve been unconsciously carrying for most of my life are not the only ones, and we actually have choices. I suppose Lovecraft’s other worlds and races can symbolize these other ways of existing. Though, clearly, many fixate on the terrible nature of these alien races, it’s really just a matter of perspective and context, and from another angle many can be seen as wondrous… or even beautiful in their own context. Once I started to illustrate Lovecraft’s ideas, something seemed to click. Maybe it’s just the way my hand and eye work together, but the atmospheres and denizens seemed the perfect match. It allowed me certain freedoms with my art, enabling me to invest more of myself into the imagery… and I believe this always improves the outcome.

As for the occult… I grew up in a very atheistic environment, matters of the spirit just were never brought up. I was fine with that, and it served me well enough for a while, but I think many of us come to a point where we feel like we might be missing out on part of the human experience if we live it entirely from one perspective.

Belief and faith is still something I struggle with greatly to this day, probably through conditioning, but I acknowledge the paradox that one’s mind needs to be open and aware to experience something of that nature. If you only look for science, you’re only going to find science. The more I read and contemplate, the more it seems that many of the spiritual paths (art, music, ritual, prayer, meditation) ultimately take us to the same place… it’s up to us to find out which is the most suitable interface for our personal culture. I was turned off by much of mainstream religion, the aesthetics seemed very dry to me and all I heard about were all the scandals going on. It was just too in my face to see it with fresh eyes, I already had too many negative associations. I guess there was this hope that something less familiar and less mainstream might still be pure, like a lost idea that had not yet been eaten up and homogenized by the masses. I’m still trying on various approaches to see what makes the most sense for me, I suspect it will keep evolving for the rest of my life as I evolve. I’ve always had an interest in the obscure, bizarre and forgotten; so the “skin” of the occult had great appeal. The imagery was right in line with my interests, and the potential of experiencing something along the lines of magic was beyond exciting.

Were you sketching from an early age?

Yes. My whole family was very artistic, I don’t know if I ever even questioned not doing it… it just seemed like it was something everyone did like eating and sleeping. So, though my environment had no spirituality in the classic sense, I had art, which is simply another interface. Unsurprisingly, monsters were a common subject matter for me since the beginning. The less confining the topic, the more enjoyable it was, monsters had no rules to follow so it was all open for me.

When was your first exhibition?

Outside of school related shows, I guess it was the first GenCon (a major role playing game convention) I attended in the mid 90’s. That didn’t quite count as a true show in the classic sense, as anyone can just rent panels to show their work. Boston still holds on to many of it’s puritanical roots, so it is hard to find places to show my moodier pieces. In 2007 I was invited to participate in a show at the Maison D’Ailleurs in Yverdon-les-Bains, Switzerland. It’s a science fiction museum that features one of the largest and most impressive collections of antique books, some hundreds of years old.

They had a show based on Lovecraft’s commonplace book, a hundred artists from around the world participated. I can’t tell you how flattering and exciting it was to be involved in such an event. If that wasn’t enough, my work was displayed right next to the works of H.R. Giger, a long-time inspiration.

Who are some of your influences? artistic or literary?

A number of times through school I’d discover artists that really spoke to me through their art. I’d be so attracted to their style, content and overall feel that it would greatly influence my direction with my own art. When I was trying to find my style, which can be a bit overwhelming, it was very tempting to adopt the pre-fixed package of one of these inspiring artists. All I’d need to do is research their techniques (colors, materials, design approaches), and I’d have a semi-organized template. This is not to say I could perfectly clone anyone’s style, far from it, but it would give me a step up with far less effort. Ultimately, this would always lead me to the same place: dissatisfaction. Though we can copy the superficial elements (their brushes, paints, colors, surfaces, etc), the most important part is missing. I didn’t live the same life they did, I didn’t have the experiences that led them to where they are, I don’t have the same associations, my hand is shaped differently and it interacts with my brain in a different manner. I would never understand their art the way they do. It also felt a bit like being an impersonator, and I’d be depriving myself of that self exploration which to me seems to be one of the rewarding functions of art. Financially speaking, one could only expect to get the jobs that the original guy turned down, so there’s a glass ceiling far how far “the artist whose work looks a lot like someone else’s” can take it. This is not to say that it’s not worth studying other artists’ work, a common practice in school is to copy a master’s work, it can be seen as a meditation and we can certainly learn from it. But, ultimately, I think the point is to find our own path. Perhaps it’s just my path to find my own path, I can’t judge others.

Not having answered the question, here are some of my favorites: Moebius, Berni Wrightson, Arthur Rackham, Albrect Durer, Brom, Frank Frazetta, Simon Bisley and H.R. Giger. Out of all of these, I think people suggest Giger the most, presumably because of my common use of greyscale and the wet textural look I often use. Beyond his style and content, I think it’s really his attitude that inspires me the most. I could be totally wrong, but I really get the sense that he’s hanging it all out there and indulging in every artistic desire without much concern for editing himself because what others may think. I think he’s denying himself very little, from my experience that’s harder than it sounds. If he feels like painting giant mechanical genitalia, he might go ahead and paint twenty mural sized variations without caring what anything thinks!

I’m probably not as much of a reader as others who share similar interests. When I do read it tends to be for information… how to do or make something. This could be how to use materials or some other technical subject, all more or less leading to new ways I can express myself. I’m always curious about how things work, and those interests never stop expanding. The Cthulhu statue project was in part a product of my desire to experience mold-making and casting. In more recent times I have been delving into topics such as meditation, metaphysics, eastern religion, etc.. I’m tasting a little bit of everything to see what speaks to me the most clearly.

Any plans to direct an animated film? Does this interest you?

Almost everything interests me! There was a great animation department in art school, and it really had a great appeal. However, it was an all or nothing endeavor, animation students were sequestered away, buried in their very time consuming projects. Since I had a stronger pull towards painting and illustration, I let go of animation for the time being. I’ve fiddled a little with animated gifs : http://www.nightserpent.com/facespread.htmland with the advent of flash animation, it seems more of a possibility. Part of being a freelance artist requires me to get as much mileage out of a project as I can, so if there was an outlet or use for something like this, the more likely it would become a reality.

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Still on the tip of DIY art, Neko sends his debut episode from the 2009 Emerald City ComiCon. Nate Powell (Swallow Me Whole, Sounds of Your Name, Walkie Talkie) talks about his start in comics, dressing up as oppressed breakfast cereal characters in his former band Soophie Nun Squad, and why Indiana is such a racist state (and more).

G. Willow Wilson (Air, Vixen: Return of the Lion, Cairo) is asked about the feathered serpent god Quetzalcoatl, flight, symbols, dreams… and how they all relate to her work.

Corey “The Rey” Lewis (Sharknife, Peng!) vigorously discusses his online roots, his online comics par excellence Seedless (updated every Wednesday) and Rival Schools (finished), and where his ideas come from. And the burning question: when will we see him draw a comic by Warren Ellis?

Camilla D’Errico (Nightmares & Fairy Tales, BURN, The Fallen) teases us with a little info about her upcoming project with Grant Morrison (which has, since this was recorded, changed to “The New Bible“). Much gushing, of course, follows. Also discussed: her project with Avril Lavigne, the upcoming videogame she’s working on, the upcoming books, her blasphamous Jesus comic book in high school, her love of manga… and why she hasn’t read Final Crisis yet! Featuring the music of Divorce Chord (Nate Powell’s current band) and The Secret Meeting… plus, some sekrit songs that you may or may not recognize.

And if that wasn’t enough… Lyxzén Suicide tells a joke, “Spider-Man” is asked a very important question, “Stan Lee” says something very NSFW, and more high weirdness.

EXCELSIOR!

 Standard Podcast [49:00m]: Play Now | Play in Popup | Download

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The Silver Serpent Coven is the Mother Coven of the Serpent Tradition, and is led by its High Priestess Becca. The Serpent Tradition consists of two other Covens at this time: Circle of the Stone Serpent & The Shadow Serpent Coven. The Serpent Tradition’s Members are all very dedicated to preservation & conservation issues of both Mother Earth and her children, and proud members of such organizations as Covenant of the Goddess, The Witches Voice and The Pagan Federation.http://www.serpenttradition.com

http://www.myspace.com/serpenttradition

1) Could you tell us when and how your practice of witchcraft began?

I first became interested in Witchcraft when my mother gave me my first set of Tarot cards. She had no idea what she was really giving me – she thought it was just a game. I began exploring then not a lot … a little here, a little there. We left Illinois shortly after that and moved to Oklahoma. My life got in the way after that. AS interested as I was in witchcraft being 16 overpowered everything in my life. At 18 I married a military man and even though I was still interest in witchcraft I didn’t delve much further … at that time the craft wasn’t accepted in the Military and I was a military wife. As soon the as it became obvious (13 1⁄2 years later) that the divorce was imminent I began looking back into witchcraft. My hiatus was over.

It started slowly – I attended billet readings and had my cards read, I even went to psychic fairs. Finally a door opened. I was invited to take a class on Tarot. From there – as they say – the rest is history. I couldn’t get enough … I read everything I could, went to festivals, and began attending rituals at a local metaphysical center.

I really count the time of my learning and training as beginning in 1991. I was a huge sponge. I talked to everyone I could and read everything I could get my hands on. Everything I heard, read, saw all struck a note of familiarity with me. I “knew” what they were talking about; I “knew” what ritual was like even though I had never attended one. I wasn’t freaked out … I felt like I had finally come home.

2) How can witchcraft aid us in our everyday life?

How can a Witch not include the craft in her everyday life? It should be a part of their basic makeup. It affects everything we touch and it shapes our daily routines. Let’s say you are at work and you go into a meeting and the whole room is in Chaos – you reach down and touch your center core of calmness and begin radiating the calmness outward to the whole room blanketing the others in the room with some calm. Even if you’re not the chairperson of the meeting you can affect the energy in the room.

You’re cooking dinner … adding herbs to your dish. You not only add the herbs for taste but as you stir the herbs into the food you release their principals into your meal to be absorbed by your family and friends who will partake of the it. Those energy principals then go to work helping your family and friends as they go about their daily lives. You can help them with their general health, prosperity, relationships with out interfering in their free will – the energy is there for them to do with as they want – even if they don’t know you gave it to them.

If you are a witch it should be something that is part of your everyday life and not just reserved for gatherings, sabats and esbats. You see the beauty and the harshness of the Mother daily and you understand there has to be balance. It is hard to see the harsh part of life but as a witch we accept that without the harsh their can be no good and visa versa

3) What stereotypes and mistruths may the average person have about witches?

Where should I start? We’re evil, we’re in league with the devil, we kill black cats and babies, we’re horrible misshapen green faced hags with scraggly hair and warts. The average person probably never really things about who or what we are they just accept anything they might have been told over the years. I don’t hide who I am but most people have now idea I am a witch and once they do find out they are literally taken aback because they can’t believe that I am one of those “horrible” witches they have always heard about.

4) Is there an attempt by Christian Fundamentalists to dissuade the public form getting involved in witchcraft?

There are still unfortunately a great number of religious groups & individuals out there, Christian & otherwise, that has agendas of their own & will do whatever it takes to persuade people to come around to their way of thinking. There have been allegations surfacing for quite a number of years from several different Christian Fundamentalist sources about Paganism & Witchcraft being the cause for everything from the destruction of “the moral code” of the country, the decomposition of “decent family values”, child abuse, and even contributing to the cause of terrorist activity. I find it sad & pitiful that because people are so desperate to find a cause for many tragic & horrible events occurring all over the world, they base all their suspicions on fear, ignorance of the facts & intolerance. Those kinds of actions lead to nothing but senseless destruction & pain of innocent people. The need for religious tolerance is all around us & we need to continue to do all we can to try & put the false accusations & negative connotations of all our faiths to rest.

5) Could you tell us what the Malleus Malleficarum is and perhaps tell us a little about the work of Gerald Gardner?

The Malleus Maleficarum (Latin for “The Hammer of Witches”, was a horrific book written in 1486 by Heinrich Kramer and Jacob Sprenger. This book was a tool used by the Dominican Order and Inquisitors for the Catholic Church in that day and age to judge, torture & execute people accused of being Witches. There is entirely too much information about this book to go into in an interview, but I would suggest anyone who isn’t familiar with the in depth history of this book to do some research on this subject. If you are a practicing Witch it will certainly give you an appreciation for the generation in which we live today. On the subject of Gerald Gardner, he is widely recognized for his influence for the revival of modern Witchcraft and the birth of the Wiccan faith. There are people out there much more qualified that I am to go into details of Gardner’s works as I am not an expert on the matter personally. He is certainly a figurehead in the world of Witchcraft that is worthy of research and study.

6) Could you tell us the difference between “Black” and “white”witchcraft, or black and white magic?

There is no “black” or “white” magic. All magic is performed by manipulating energy. Energy is all around us; energy is a part of everything in our lives. Energy knows no color and has no intent – it is the soul of the witch that determines if the magic is positive or negative.

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John Wisniewski interviews Frater Urbain, member of the infamous Conspirators of the Occult.Conspirators composed music for Kenneth Anger’s Lucifer Rising. Has Ken heard the music?

I was watching Invocation of my Demon Brother while working on the Piece Metatron and noticed the pacing was the same. We found by accident that almost all of Angers footage would easily sync with our music with practically no editing. So we put a few shorts together for our own entertainment. later we decided to share a couple with anyone who may be interested. lucifer rising is one of everyone’s favorite films so we scored the whole film for our own pleasure.

There is a lot more footage around the Estate that will probably never be seen. We also have quite a bit of Nosferatu scored but lost interest when we realized how many times it had been done before. We try not to go to the well too many times when it comes to Anger’s films, although it’s tempting. I’m pretty sure it’s far from public domain and we wouldn’t want to disrespect anyone’s work.

Anyone who enjoys his work should check out a remastered box set of his films recently released by fantomas films. I am not sure if anger has any knowledge of it but I would hope he would at least not be annoyed. He is a great artist and it is done out of deep respect. Anger’s work and lectures introduced me to the virtue of Crowley’s knowledge. We try to share and show tribute to the great artist that have shaped us. There is a lot of media out there cluttering things up. Some of that clutter should at least be valid entertainment.

When did Conspirators get together and was there a mutual interest in occult films, and soundtrack music?

The CotO have intersected and revolved around each others lives for a long time. Even though all are very different. There are enough common interest to pull everyone together for what the CotO consider worthwhile projects. Not to say it’s easy. So many conflicts of opinion exist in every aspect including theology, occult, religion and general attitude, but everyone involved enjoys the creative process. Getting almost everyone’s input into a solid comprehensible state can be a severely daunting task similar to gift-wrapping chaos. Everyone has an agenda and hardly anyone agrees on the same thing at the same time. When it comes to reference and symbolism there is always heavy conflict, Some Conspirators are quite dark and this can conflict with the goals of the slightly more benevolent members.

The bottom line is always to achieve what we consider an interesting quality piece of work. If someone is introduced to anything new, it is a welcomed, but not a necessary by-product. The only thing the CotO can discuss without a severe argument is music and film. Everyone can find a middleground on those subjects. For the most part we all may not respect the same artist but collectively share a dislike of a few enough to rally mutual opposition.

Are there any plans to score a feature film?

That would definitely be a something that we would be highly interested in right now all focus is on the DEADBEAT MEDIA cd. The material has been there for quite a while but we had to start from scratch a couple of times due to a few major mishaps. We’re now in the final mastering stage and the material has come a long way from the demos that are accessible online

Who are some of your influences‌?

Our influences change almost by the hour but the main core of the CotO project obviously has been influenced by cult and occult films, and artist like Black Sabbath, Jodorowsky, Lovecraft, Goblin, Jacula, Kenneth Anger, Grant Morrison, Crowley, Gurdjieff, some 70’s prog and 90’s thrash/hardcore and of course composers like Morricone, Bernard Herrman, Jerry Goldsmith, Kilar, Fabio Frizzi. We also enjoy people considered intellectual rebels like Tesla or people who seem to be almost supernaturally controversial like Rasputin or Carlo Gesualdo or Joris Huysman. It really opens a pandoras referencing our influences ,but that is the short list. Personally very early influences were local horror host and movies.

The music in those old Hammer and Amicus films always caught my ear especially the Theremin but at the time I didn’t know there was such a thing as soundtrack albums. I went on to discover bands like Sabbath, Pink Floyd ,Zappa and Beefheart and films like the Exorcist and the Omen and of course later I would find heavier sounds and more extreme cinema. I also developed a deeper understanding of the references made in the films I had been watching since childhood. Suddenly the Devil Rides Out and other similar films were enjoyable on a new level.

Gnosticism and occult study is a pretty obvious theme in the CotO. The whole project is a sort of hypersigil. Not necessarily like Grant Morrisson’s the Invisibles but similar. When you mix the Conspirators particular talents you achieve a form of if not chaos magick then at least chaotic magick.

Your true identities are kept secret‌ Does this add to the mystery and mystique of the group?

This project and anyone it would appeal to have no interest in seeing yet another person posing languidly or wildly with an instrument. That sort of thing has it’s place, but it has never been necessary or appropriate for the CotO. We are very open in our personal correspondence. But the CotO is a different situation where all is welcome with the exception of politics and posturing. I honestly have never given any thought to whether or not there would be a mystique involved. Things are developing somewhat naturally. As far as the world knows we are a very new entity and not exactly high profile .

It’s not an ongoing mystery situation like the Residents. Josef is Josef and Urbain is Urbain . Whatever else you choose to believe is up to the individual. I hope the music speaks well enough for itself. That is who we are. I am sure most musicians or artist of any type can relate to that. So much time and genuine effort goes into a creation. If you keep giving it your energy it can become an entity to itself fueled by that energy. The CotO is a hypersigil. The sights, the sounds, the written words are all to entertain yet also exist on another level. There is no real truth in an identity. Beings are not what they or others perceive them to be.

What do the members do when they are not composing?

I can’t speak for anyone else the Conspirators of the Occult are an eclectic group of artist that occasionally unite to create. When you factor in internet collaborations it would be hard, even strange to keep up with every ones habits. It is a rare occasion when I am not working on music or the tools used to create it. Writing and performing music is enjoyable and comes easy. It isn’t a quick process but it feels that way. If I stay at it in 8 to 12 hours I can have a decent demo of a tune. With all instruments, orchestration and some samples. All the problem solving and creating that goes into composing doesn’t bother me in the least. I’ll do this daily for a short period. During that time there is little time for anything else and even sleep is invaded with work. When the well begins to echo I take a break and pursue whatever esoteric thing that can distract me. Then the production end begins, which can be frustrating. Engineering and troubleshooting whatever devices you use come into play. Of course there are usually technical and financial limitations that are involved with self contained and underground projects.
For those of us who may not be familiar with the film Haxan could you tell us about the film and your use of the film to accompany your music?

Haxan is an extremely entertaining documentary / film by Benjamin Christensen that has surfaced in several incarnations. The most bizarre version is Witchcraft through the Ages. I would see photos and snippets of footage once in a while of this devil flipping his tongue around behind a pulpit. It was obviously old footage but the make up effects were very impressive. I did some searching and found an old vhs of Haxan. I thought this film was about as impressive as it could get until I discovered a version with William S. Burroughs narrating and Jean Luc Ponty on the soundtrack. I seriously suspected I was hallucinating. I couldn’t believe these worlds were merging in such great way. In hindsight this version of the film may have had a larger impact on me than I have realized.

There have been many soundtracks to Haxan. But mixing Jazz ,Burroughs and Esoteric lore took this film to a new level of artistic expression. The footage in Haxan is far to wonderful to ignore. We have used it several times. Bethlehelle used it with the composition Fight of the Gimps and Project Urbain has used some of it’s footage for the Loudin Louviers Incident, Mixed with several other films from the Nunsploitation genre. Jodorowsky’s El Topo and Holy Mountain. Ken Russels the Devils, the works of Kenneth Anger and Haxan all have been a huge influence on the style of the CotO. As much as any text we have encountered. It may seem at odds but the influence of Gurdjieff and Crowely are very present at all times also. They led conflicting lives but if you listen to both with an open mind. You can learn quite a bit. Crowley is overexposed and sensationalized, but still very important. He seems to be the gateway magus for most people.

We find inspiration in more modern forms of text also. The Filth and the Invisibles by Grant Morrison are graphic novels that have a huge impact. Alan Moore and Neil Gaima the art of Berni Wrightson and frank frazetta all of these things are amazing. If we’re touching on influence You can’t leave out people like Robert Anton Wilson, David lynch, and Marshall MCluhan either. I have been avoiding going to deep into the Musical influences because it becomes very involved.

Maybe you name just a few musical influences for us and perhaps give us an idea of how you select images to compliment the music‌.

Not everything that has influenced us can be heard directly in the music. Capt Beefheart is a huge inspiration but you would never listen to the CotO and think “that sounds like the Magic Band”. The same goes for Les Baxter who is mostly known for dreamy lounge, but he has done some good horror soundtracks also. His score to the Dunwich Horror is great. We love 70’s fusion and prog rock bands like Return to Forever, the Mahavishnu orchestra, Le Orme, Museo Rosenbach and Cherry Five which is an early incarnation of Goblin.

That brings up the whole soundtrack influence. I remember when I was a kid watching horror films I thought some of this music doesn’t seem to fit. I was used to the James Bernard, Morricone and Bernard Herrmann school of sound. But later I came to really love the music of Goblin, Rizzati, Giombini and Ortaloni who has done some amazing western scores and of course the great Fabio Frizzi. The way they would use a Mellotron, Synth and the great bass tones in those eerie rock fusion compositions is a really special thing. They really stand on their own. Claudio Simonetti proves it with Daemonia which plays the Goblin material with a somewhat harder edge.

We are obviously into heavier sounds Black Sabbath, Deicide, Slayer, Black Flag and bands considered classic rock like Pink Floyd and Deep Purple. Jacula and Coven are very good occult rock bands. Jacula is really an amazing experience a great atmospheric ride. On the experimental side the Residents, Einsturzen Neubauten and Luigi Russolo have pretty much already covered most anything we think of. There is a mutated element of black metal in some of our compositions also but the classic horror theme is the king in our world. Carpenter , Goldsmith, Herrmann, Komeda. They have created sounds that are instantly recognized as much as any classical piece or product jingle. You can hear two notes and instantly have an emotional reaction. Jaws being the most obvious example. The soundtrack to Halloween really set in stone what a good horror soundtrack can do to help a film or even a character in the film. The symbiotic relationship between music and film is really interesting. Tubular Bells gives people chills but without the context of the Exorcist it really wouldn’t have the same effect. Ave Satana from the Omen on the other hand is a powerful dark piece. Intimidating on it’s own. Goldsmith really captures the reality where the films characters exist. I can listen to the Planet of the Apes music and really get a feel for the story. The good composers seem to have a special empathy for the films. You can really feel the melancholy and disorientation of Rosemary when you hear Lullaby. Komeda really hit the nail on the head with that tune.

The CotO images have a place of their own. We get positive and negative responses concerning them. People miss or misunderstand some of the symbolism. If you take the images at face value they should appeal to a fan of gothic horror and underground cinema. You can also recognize a few important esoteric figures. looking deeper is not necessary but could kill some time if you’re bored. We get positive and negative responses about the samples also. Some find them intrusive others think they make the song. To us they are just part of the composition. I like it when a band uses soundbytes. Jacula, Venom ,Pink Floyd and Skinny Puppy have used spoken word and samples for a while. I think it really adds to the experience.

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John Wisniewski interviews John Zerzan

John Zerzan (born 1943) is an American anarchist and primitivist philosopher and author. His works criticize agricultural civilization as inherently oppressive, and advocate drawing upon the ways of life of prehistoric humans as an inspiration for what a free society should look like. Some of his criticism has extended as far as challenging domestication, language, symbolic thought (such as mathematics and art) and the concept of time. His five major books are Elements of Refusal (1988), Future Primitive and Other Essays (1994), Running on Emptiness (2002), Against Civilization: Readings and Reflections (2005) and Twilight of the Machines (2008). (MORE)

Do you believe that we are alienated in our society, due to our over reliance on technology and machines, which relieves us of power and so responsibility in life. I am not sure if I have this right?

We are increasingly dependent on experts/specialists in every area of life. e.g. one needs books to know how to parent, how to live - we are de-skilled steadily. Clifford Stoll’s ’90s book, Silicon Snake Oil discusses this. We are really infantilized in many ways by this movement, which goes back to division of labor.

Any economist will tell us that the constant forward movement of specialization is what drives the economy in general, is what is meant, most basically, by progress. There is a narrowing in the scope of living that is not much discussed, however basic. The accelerating rate of technological change renders society into a technoculture and this is of course a global development. One example is the false promise of being connected - as isolation mounts rapidly. Technology deforms community and connection is more and more disembodied and trivialized.

What could we learn from or what have we forgotten from our primitive past?

Once we were skilled beings on this planet. We could make tools, identify plants, etc Beginning with domestication we removed ourselves from the earth in order to control it. In the industrialized technosphere we find ourselves cut off and shriveling, having taken the wrong path. But all can be relearned; in fact, some say we still have the orientation within us of the 99% of existence lived before domestication and civilization, waiting to be tapped into.

To our detriment, are we destroying our environment everyday and how will this hurt us in years to come? Is there a lack of concern for future generations?

The eco-disaster is obviously unfolding now, the consequences are starkly obviously. And the general scenario is also clear: global over-heading is a function of industrialism. Both started 200 years ago; every increase of one is a corresponding increase of the other.

The problem is less a lack of concern than the failure to make an alternative public. Both Left and Right embrace mass society, mass production society: industrial life. Without a visible case for something basically different, there will be no solution, without it there can only be cynicism, denial.

There must be a new vision, a new paradigm articulated and forced into public view for dialog and action.

What prompted you to develop your theories and begin to write them down and when did you do this? Was there a particular experience that you may have had?

(The movement of my ideas has been a somewhat gradual one. As a union organizer I became interested in labor history and the study of unionism (mainly as a system of control) led into examining industrialism, the context of early unions (e.g. in England where the factory system first began). The Industrial Revolution was, among other things, social control on a basic level (herding people into factories rather than enduring the constant resistance of autonomous workers (e.g. handloom weavers). The Luddites enter the picture. etc. And it began to occur to me that technology always ex- presses the values of the dominant culture, is never neutral. This is related to indicting domestication and civilization and taking a new look at life before these institutions. The search for the roots of control, the search for what would comprise a liberated future life-world.

Could you tell us about your times during the 1960’s. You were arrested for protesting the Vietnam War, hung out with ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters, and became interested in Guy DeBord and the Situationists?

After Stanford I moved, in 1966, to the Haight-Ashbury of SF For a time I was part Marxist hippy, union organizer and weekend rioter (across the Bay in Berkeley). I was never real close with the Pranksters or Kesey, actually knew Neal Casady slightly better. I discovered the Situationists in 1970, when it was already too late for such ideas to become important to the Movement (which was by then dead in California). Later it became clear to me how important, in a negative sense, was the decision (an explicit one for some, like Stewart Brand of Whole Earth fame) to say yes to technology rather than no.

You sat in on the trial of Theodore Kaczinski. Do you see this kind of violence, as anger against a mechanized society? Was Kazcinski suffering from feelings of alienation?

Kaczynski was certainly angry at mechanized society, both philosophically and personally. Industrial Society and its Future, the misnamed “ManifestoÕ (the essay is a carefully argued treatise, not at all a manifest) makes this clear, and he was also angered by industrial intrusion where he lived in Montana. Of course he felt alienated as well; his whole life testifies to that e.g. his flight from society. That anger and alienation are not only characteristic of Ted K but also felt by millions, I’d say.

Could you tell us about the protests against the anti-World Trade

Organization, in which what is called “blac block” tactics were used? Why does anger turn to violence at these demonstrations?

Without real acts demos are quickly forgotten or ignored in the first place. We still think of the anti-WTO militancy of late ‘99because of the Black Bloc action. Destroying property is not violence, in my view, by the way. Does a bank window have feelings? Millions demonstrated against the start of the US war against Iraq in 2003 but they were completely ineffective because they merely paraded, never breaking the rules of such games.

You have suggested that the anarcho-political left move away from the left. Why did you suggest this?

The Left has been a monumental failure. When has it stopped war, ecocide, and fascism? More deeply it cannot even be said to have failed - when it hasn’t ever tried. That is, domestication, civilization, industrialism, division of labor are all fine with leftists. Which is why there’s such hatred by lefties for anarcho-primitivism. The Left, on a basic level, is completely part of the ensemble of domination.

Has all of our technology, and the division of labor imprisoned us all? Technology is supposed to aid us, but has it? Are we moving dangerously towards a New World Order?

Division of labor starts by reducing the self to roles of production. By dividing the self the basis of divided or class society is established.

To me, division of labor is technology whereas simple tools are not. They have little or no division of labor and do not constitute systems of production with its further estrangements and hierarchies. We of course see the further movement of technology, in fact its accelerating pace. And what kind of health do we see for the individual, society, or the biosphere? As Kaczynski wrote, the more technified society becomes, the less freedom and the less fulfillment its subjects have. This verdict appears undeniable.

Thanks so much John.

(Interview by John Wisniewski)

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